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June 6, 2007 Minutes of Special Meeting
Minutes of Special Meeting June 6, 2007 Call to order at 6:35 PM by Chair Polzin It said Lower Level that was a mistake that is tomorrow nights meeting, is going to be at the lower level. Roll Call everyone present accept Jim Wolfgram, he has been excused Declaration of a Quorum present for doing business Communications None Comments and suggestion of citizens presents Town Board may take action on the following agenda items Old business: Action on file cabinets, permission for Town Chairman to order. Chair Polzin: No action on this I have talked with Dixie and she is doing some checking on it for the quality, I guess cabinets have been bought before and was a poor quality. She is checking into this and hopefully within the next few weeks we will have those cabinets. Is that agreeable too, I am not going to ask for a motion Chair Polzin: I am not going to ask for a motion. Supervisor Sessner: Yes Supervisor Jones: Do you need a motion to table or anything? Chair Polzin: I do not believe so, we don’t need a motion on it if we are not acting on it do we? Attorney Wassel: No Action on Chairman’s cell phone car charger and blue tooth from Cingular and from what account to be paid out of. Pass a resolution to transfer $500.00 from contingency fund to a new account for Town Chairman. Chair Polzin: “We are not going to act on that; we have that taken care of. I am going to ask though that you consider a resolution to transfer $500.00 from the contingency fund to an account for the Town Chairman. Frank I have had a situation today that we spent the whole morning with the Town Engineer. Well there are cases where the Town Chair and I don’t know of any other government around here, that an administrator does not have a small amount of money in an account if he had to...For an example: we have to this guy coming in tomorrow night about being the Administrator. If he hadn’t eaten or anything the town could be courtesy enough, because we did not pay him anything to come, and there was a comment made that we should give him $400-500 for a couple trips to come here and put him up overnight and so on. With this I guess over there ah, if a guy bought him dinner, so what I am asking for is what you thought about having a small amount of money where it is available, where if it were proper to take someone out to dinner, meeting with somebody, I don’t know Steve, How does that …” Attorney Wassel: “Other municipalities designate an expense amount, on a monthly basis that comes with your payroll check. And that way you get a 1099 for it, and there is no issue as respect to accounting for whether you spent it taking someone out to lunch or whether you are reimbursing fuel costs or what ever. That way you don’t have to worry about some bodies saying you spent $22.00 on lunch where did you go and what did do, and that sort of thing. That is one way of handing it, the other component of course is that the general principal on those types of matters is that you get prior approval if you wish to incur an expense and get authorization to. I guess my only reservation to establishing a fund, if you want to call it that out of contingency, is that it subjects you the Chair to incredible scrutiny where people may question, and this day in age $100 means nothing, but on the other hand from a public policy stand point people can make a big deal out of it. Most recently the city of Delavan Andes Candies got a waver of some water charges that is going to cost me as the City of Delavan city and water user, money, because we have to pick up the difference which is about $10,000. The very next day, Andes delivered cases of chocolates to city hall. People were making a big deal out of it, it just looks wrong. So I think from an accountability stand point, I think you open up yourself to people criticizing if you have what they call a slush fund to speak and I am not saying that is what it is, I think that if you do it, you do it across the board with all of the board members, give everybody a set amount for their expenses in this day in age because gasoline is expensive, and so on and so forth and then give everyone a 1099, it is not a salary it is not compensation but you get a 1099 for it and then you can itemize your expenses on your tax return should you choose to do it. I think that is a legitimate way of handling it. Or the other option would be to get prior approval of the board. I am just concerned whether it is you or any Chair, I think that if you just establish $500, and let people use it as a discretionary account; I think you expose yourself to a lot of public scrutiny that is inappropriate.” Chair Polzin: “To start the reason it was put on was to pay for the cell phone. They had no account for the cell phone or anything. During the Administration Committee Tim O’Keefe came up and made the recommendation of the Administration Committee, they all agreed upon what account to take it out of, right?” Clerk Bernsteen: “Well, what we actually ended up doing is taking it out of the board conference budget, because the Town Board does not have a budget for office supplies or anything like that; or, for your cell phone or anything, because everything is categorized out per department. So, you do not have anything for that category so the best thing we could do is take it out of the Conference Budget.” Chair Polzin: “Well Kim as being a business man in a pretty good size businessman, he is not a one man show, I don’t imagine or he does a lot business for one man show. I did not have any problems with his recommendation at how to handle it, so that is where the $500 is…” Attorney Wassel: “ I think the cell phone thing I don’t have a problem with that, but to just have a…you mentioned taking someone out to dinner, and I don’t’ object to any of that. I am just saying I don’t want to put you in the hot seat and have people writing letters to the Editor that you spent $20.00 at the Village, and what was that all about, that sort of thing.” Chair Polzin: “Do I have the authority if I feel it is proper for the Town to take somebody and pay for their lunch or something and turn in an expense bill?” Attorney Wassel: “I think that the policy in the past your ordinarily request prior approval from the Board. If you are in a situation where time constraints do not permit that, I think that if any board member wishes to incur an expense and subsequently wishes to be reimbursed, you can make your case before the board, and say I did not have time to come before the board, if you don’t want to approve it fine I will eat it, part of the cost of doing business or I am asking all of you to pitch in and say that this should be reimbursed, That is what has happened in the past.” Chair Polzin: “Couldn’t the Town Chairman be given the power by the Town Board that if a Supervisor wanted to do that they could get the OK through the Town Chairman? Give the Town Chairman Power to authorize.” Supervisor Jones: “Can I kick in my two cents here? Every business that I have ever worked for as a professional, there is often times when you have incurred expenses for in the role of doing business for the business. And every place authorized the expenditures in those cases for instance: a meal, cab fare or what ever it was and you were reimbursed when you turned in your expense voucher and you were reimbursed for it. Is there any reason the Town can’t operate like that?” Attorney Wassel: “That is what we have done.” Supervisor Sessner: “We do have that?” Attorney Wassel: “No, what I am saying is that you turn it in and it subject to board approval. Obviously, when the bills come through the finance committee they look at it and say’s that Frank has $30.00 for cab fare, where the heck was he, you know, is he taking a limo from the Vegas Club or something? So, I am saying this tongue and cheek, I hope that is understood. Supervisor Sessner: So, for example, those two guys spent all day out today. Now I see nothing wrong with the Town buying a lunch, they spent a whole day; there is nothing wrong with that.” Chair Polzin: “I have not been home since 9:00 AM this morning.” Supervisor Sessner: “So, they put it in their expense account and when there approval times are the Board will approve the expense.” Chair Polzin: “See, that is the approval, is after the fact.” Supervisor Sessner: “Yes, what is wrong with that? If we can’t trust each other than there is something wrong.” Chair Polzin: “I can take and pay for my own lunch it is not a problem, but I feel that if I am taking somebody for lunch, for town business purposes I shouldn’t have to sit and well ok now I have paid for the lunch, now the Town Board is not going to approve it or won’t approve it or what ever… And that is I feel, that should be done somehow in advance, because once you spend the money, and the Town Board does not want to pay for it, it is out of your pocket.” Attorney Wassel: “You are right, I have yet to see, and I don’t; remember there ever being expense incurred by a board member that they asked to be reimbursed, that it was denied. I really don’t remember that ever occurred. I mean clearly, if you come in and say well we bought cocktails and we each had five rounds for lunch, I think that the board members might say that, that’s not such a great idea.” Chair Polzin: “Steve, if we go back some years, the Board of Review, every year at the Board of Review where we were in session at lunch, we went to the Village for lunch; we had gone to Ralph’s one year I believe, because they were open. Now it is not…” Attorney Wassel: “We brought in pizzas and all kinds of stuff.” Chair Polzin: “With that over there, what kind of authority and who is going to pay for it and so on and so forth. If you remember correctly, John Davis had a glass of wine with every lunch we had. He was warned ahead of time, he could have his glass of wine, and he was not going to be intoxicated where he couldn’t do town business. But, he had to pay for that wine out of his pocket, not tax payers.” Attorney Wassel: “Yes he did.” Chair Polzin: “And I have never agreed to a bottle of beer or anything off of the tax payers.” Attorney Wassel: “I agree” Chair Polzin: “Lunch is fine, and so on and so forth, but now Board of Review starts when...Monday?” Clerk Bernsteen: “Yes.” Chair Polzin: “So the Board of Review starts at 9:00AM on Monday morning I think it is.” Attorney Wassel: “I didn’t know. Who on the board is certified?” Chair Polzin: “Well, there are four of them I guess.” Clerk Bernsteen: “There is Kay, Jim, and myself.” Attorney Wassel: “Three OK. Do we have a court reporter by the way?” Clerk Bernsteen: “Yes” Attorney Wassel: “I didn’t know that we had Board of Review, have we had people sign up yet?” Clerk Bernsteen: “I think only one….” Attorney Wassel: “So we should have someone here 9:00AM Monday.” Chair Polzin: “And we should not, ok if we only have one. I think it is two hours you have to be in session.” Attorney Wassel: “Right.” Chair Polzin: “So, if we close or adjourn the Board of Review, I guess we would adjourn it, wouldn’t we?” Attorney Wassel: “Adjourn, sign a die.” Chair Polzin: “So, anyway with that we won’t be here or lunch we won’t have to worry about lunch. Lunch is on your own, but if you are going to be here until 3 or 4 o’clock in the afternoon because you come back the next day, in which we have done. We have been here about 4 days. So, anyway I just like to clear the air on some of this on how it should be handled, Ahhhh, and I said as long as the Town Board members feel comfortable with the legitimate reason to by someone’s lunch I don’t have a problem with it.” Supervisor Jones: “What we business commonly… did do is establish a ceiling, I mean ah to take someone out to lunch maybe the ceiling depending on who you work for at that time, years ago it was $50 or $75. I mean you couldn’t take a guy out for and buy him a $500 dollar lunch. It is expected to be a reasonable……” Chair Polzin: “Well, I would think over there if…and I don’t see really you would be going to a supper club or anything.” Supervisor Sessner:” No” Chair Polzin: “I would think that even $50 for 2 people but if you say that over there it may be 3 people and it would be $50.” Supervisor Jones: “Yeah…” Chair Polzin: “So, if a limit was set that you could go up to a limit regardless if it one person or 2 person’s you are taking out the limit would be $50. And you know that has never happened where I have ever taken anybody out for lunch other than the board of review.” Attorney Wassel: “And I am not trying to argue with you or I am just asking what I think is a ret oracle question, but if time permits and it is foreseeable, then it would seem that the logical thing to do is get the approval of the board. If you have time constraints and are not able to do that, it has worked in the past and I am not sure that I would see a problem, if you came in and said. Hey I spend $15 on lunch with the engineer can I get it reimbursed for that. Put it on an agenda item or just throw it in with the bill, and when you are paying bills it is paid. Just like any other bill. I don’t see…It has not been an issue in the past. And if you want to...exceptionally you are asking for a blank check and I think that is, and again my job is to protect you and the board. And I just feel the whole blank check concept even though it is a small amount of money in the greater scheme of things. I think people get skittish about that. So, it is all about accountability not matter how you slice and dice it. So, my recommendation for what ever it is worth would be too just continue as you have been doing. Which is to get prior approval if that is practical or feasible and if not then you run the risk of not having the board approve it. But, as I have said; I have never seen a board say no.” Chair Polzin: “Well, yeah, in most of the time you would not have time to approve it through the Town Board because most of the time that stuff would be coming up quickly.” Attorney Wassel: “Right.” Chair Polzin: “And depends on ya know the same way is I had I don’t know how many different times over the years developers call and say.” Chair Polzin: “Ah, let’s go out for lunch I would like to talk to you about this or that development. And I have always refused them. I said no, why I don’t just meet you at the office at 1:00.” Attorney Wassel: “Yeah” Chair Polzin: “And I don’t think it is proper ah… For me to accept a lunch from anybody wanting to do business with the town.” Supervisor Jones: “I have an example: last week I was over at the county had to have those print copies of all this crap for that Westshire stuff. Well the total came to $4.35; well I am not going to try to round up 4 people from the Town Board to authorize $4.35.” Attorney Wassel: “But I think it is legit that you put that in and ask for reimbursement.” Supervisor Sessner: “Right” Attorney Wassel: “I don’t even see a problem doing it after the fact, it is clear that…” Clerk Bernsteen: “In general that is how it is done now.” Attorney Wassel: “Well, my bill for instance if we incur and expense on behalf of the Town of Delavan, if it is something significant I am probably going to call the Town Chair and say do you foresee any problem with this? But others wise litigation we have to take depositions whatever. We pay the expense and then I put on an invoice and it gets reimbursed.” Chair Polzin: “Yeah but with one of the last Supervisors we had on the board, you know as well as I do. Well did you have permission from the Town Board to do this? It would be the same with Franks $4.00 and some cents. Well who gave you the authority to go over to Elkhorn and do, this or that? Well I guess over there you can’t get permission to do your job and if there is something there you have to go out and do your job.” Attorney Wassel: “I think if you have a level of trust and understanding and everyone is acting in good faith. I don’t, and no one is trying to abuse the situation then I don’t see an issue. After all it is not money that is going into your pocket. It is just to take care of town business.” Chair Polzin: “Well, I think we have a good Town Board and ah…” Supervisor Sessner: “I think we trust each other and for example for the EMS committee. I went to Milwaukee. Drove up there met with the EMS people for 4 hours, came back I don’t charge the town because I was told that boom I was, I didn’t get prior approval, but I did not have time. But, if you can’t trust me I should not be here. That is what it should be.” Chair Polzin: “Well no, and you are 100% correct on that. And I think over there you could have turned in that mileage and you would have been reimbursed. Supervisor Sessner: “No, that is ok, no problem.” Chair Polzin: “Because I know the job that you did to set up the funds of rescue squad calls. And I think over there that you did the bulk of the work for this whole program we got. And what did we come out of that. Right now we are somewhere $55,000 plus onto it.” Supervisor Sessner: “Yeah. Well that is my job though too.” Supervisor Jones: “Why don’t we continue on and…” Supervisor Sessner: “But, I think we should trust each other.” Supervisor Jones: “Well, why don’t we continue on and see what happens, if we get to much problems we will take care of it.” Chair Polzin: “Probably should make sure it is in the minutes.” Bill Woelert: “I thought that is what he said.” Chair Polzin: “What is that?” Bill Woelert: “At the last meeting, didn’t the Chief of Police say that he would control out here for the 4th of July after the fireworks.” Chair Polzin: “I thought he did but I can’t remember the exact words, cause I… It was brought up I know at a meeting.” Clerk Bernsteen: “It was brought up, but I don’t think he said no he wouldn’t.” Supervisor Franzen: “What he... I believe didn’t he say he would take care of traffic.” Clerk Bernsteen: “Once it hits the light he will take care of it. He doesn’t take care of the traffic in the park.” Supervisor Franzen: “In the park.” Bill Woelert: “Well I know it is not in the park, I was taking about coming out of the park.” Chair Polzin: “Bill, I remember now cause member I asked them if they could control the stop and go light with a button and he said no. He said they would have an officer that would be out there and stop the traffic.” Bill Woelert: “I took it that he was not going to have no officers there what so ever.” Clerk Bernsteen: “No” Chair Polzin: “No, I don’t think so Bill, I think over there if my memory and the rest of you guys.” Supervisor Jones: “He said he would be at the light.” Chair Polzin: “Yeah, he wouldn’t control the lights that way.” Bill Woelert: “I know I can see where he can’t control the lights. What I am concerned about is, if people come out of the park, to have traffic even if it is at the lights up here. I, you should have a patrolman here. I am 70 years old and when I was 10-12 year old, when you had a special events and policeman were all over there directing traffic. And now it don’t seem like they want to direct traffic. Because I want to know what the Police Departments responsibilities are now days.” Chair Polzin: “Well I think over there, I am positive but I can check on it. Frank and I are both on the police committee, and we can check with the chief, ah…” Supervisor Jones: “He told us at the meeting...” Chair Polzin: “I am sure Bill that ah, he plans on having an officer direct traffic.” Supervisor Jones: “At the intersection.” Chair Polzin: “At the intersection, so he may let 40 cars come out of the park and then stop them.” Bill Woelert: “That is fine I ….” Attorney Wassel: “Let’s stick to our agenda.” Bill Woelert: “I think somebody aught to check with him to make sure.” Chair Polzin: “We will do that.” Bill Woelert: “Because 4th of July is less than a month away, and ah if you don’t. Well tomorrow night we have our meeting….It would be nice to know.” Chair Polzin: “I will find out tomorrow, because I will be around here, and I will talk to him tomorrow and I can let Kay know, before the meeting.” Bill Woelert: “That is fine with me. But if that is not, it ain’t gonna be fine with me. I want to know what there responsibilities are.” Chair Polzin: “Bill I am sorry but we are right in the middle of the agenda.” Bill Woelert: “OK” Chair Polzin: “Thank You. Ah, all right so, with that we are not going to take any action on the item on the agenda there. Ah,” New business Chair Polzin: Reservations for towns convention in October at Green Bay, Plus make room reservations for town elected members, I have most of this stuff now on my desk, of what the different one’s are requesting as to a smoking, non smoking, one bed, two beds, one or 2 person’s. And I believe now the only one that I am missing is Jim and he was not sure last night whether he was coming or not. And I told him, I thought it was important that he did come, so he is going to get back to me, and ah it will probably be tomorrow night, cause he couldn’t be here this evening. Ah, so we don’t have to take any action on that. You all got the notice on that and filled out the thing so we know what you want.” Supervisor Jones: “Do we need to authorize the expenditure?” Chair Polzin: “No, that’s ah. There is $4000 in the budget for the Town Board on town conventions. And out of that, ah the convention for Pat and Dixie does not come out of the Treasurers or Clerks account for education and so on. That comes out of our account as the Town Board. That is what that money is for.” Clerk Bernsteen: “Just for that convention.” Chair Polzin: “Right. So, there is plenty of money I think in that convention $4,000 to handle the…” Supervisor Sessner: “I hope so” Chair Polzin: “Otherwise Herb we will ask you to float a loan to the town. So I don’t believe that we are going to have to take action on that. But it brings it out to what is going on and so on and so forth. And Frank had asked the question is there a need to have a charge card? And when did the Town Board vote to acquire to have permission to have one. That is not happening during this administration that we authorize the charge card. And I guess it, it is open whether you feel we need a charge card or we don’t need a charge card. Or whatever. So…” Supervisor Sessner: “What is it used for?” Chair Polzin: “Well, for an example, if I make the reservations for the convention, I would put it on the town charge card, not my own. For example if you order something, and it is from out of town you are going to have to give them a charge card to ship it or wait for us to send them a check.” Supervisor Sessner: “Oh, sure.” Chair Polzin: “It does speed up the operation of the town, but then again, I think there could be more discussion about the charge card and who should use it.” Supervisor Jones: “Well if you have a charge card then you need to….” Chair Polzin: “Excuse me; the telephone is going off here. Just a second…” Supervisor Jones: “If you have a charge card you need some kind of controls.” Chair Polzin: “That is Right.” Clerk Bernsteen: “Right, the only thing the charge card is used for is like seminar stuff we have to pay for right away. Park Supervisor uses it at the park once and awhile, for stuff he needs to order. He does get permission and everything first. He brings me a request; we know it is all legitimate. It is used for seminars; the Highway Department uses it some times, the mechanic.” Attorney Wassel: “Use it for office supplies?” Clerk Bernsteen: “Not so much for office supplies, because we…” Treasurer Morelli: “Do we use it for the…” Clerk Bernsteen: “No, so it is just there for things that are needed that need to be purchased on a credit card. That, we don’t have open accounts for.” Attorney Wassel: “How many cards are there?” Clerk Bernsteen: “There are two, I have one and Pat has one, but Pat’s is only for emergencies if I am not here and someone needs a card.” Attorney Wassel: “We paid a firm, it was after the Police Department issue where we funds embezzled, we paid a firm to do an internal investigation and control type audit, and I believe they made some kind of recommendation in that analysis in that about charge card use. And I did not see it, it doesn’t stick in my mind, but I think they did say something about it as to what kind of controls if any you may choose to put on your credit card. I think we have a pretty low limit on it though, don’t we?” Clerk Bernsteen: “You know, I don’t even know. We very rarely have to use it.” Chair Polzin: “Well it says on the card itself, ah normally when you get your monthly bill. It says what your limit is and what you have to spend off the….” Clerk Bernsteen: “I usually don’t see that because, Jan takes care of that. Unless I look when, I sign the checks.” Supervisor Jones: “Unless there is really a need for charge card, I view it as a problem waiting to happen.” Attorney Wassel: “I think Frank at this day in age, it is the type of thing you may not want to use, but it is a necessary evil. Particularly when you have contracted employees, you have your town mechanic that might need a part. And not be able too…What is the town mechanic to do if he is called out at midnight because a plow is broken and he needs a part and needs to fix it that night. Are you going to wake up the Chairman and the Clerk to sign checks or use the credit card? I think there are times when you have to use it. It’s the type of age we are in.” Chair Polzin: “Well I…” Supervisor Jones: “Well you see I don’t know, from being in business I had established accounts. I never, absolutely had any need for a charge card.” Supervisor Franzen: “Today that does not work.” Attorney Wassel: “Now because we are subjected to competitive process, and you might have an account with Wal-Mart or whatever, who knows if they are necessarily the cheapest place to go. You have to go with the competitive process if we have established accounts with outfits, you are right that is how things did operate probably 20 years ago. You can just call up coast to coast hardware store and say put it on my bill. Things are different, because nothing is hardly, locally owned anymore. And you either give them green or plastic.” Chair Polzin: “Well, I think the charge card is a good thing, properly used. I kind of disagree with you a little bit Steve. That in the middle if the mechanic needed something. He is going to get it locally. And if he has got an account for us, which I am sure he does, down to the auto parts store for an example. Napa auto parts of one of them. And I think over there first he has got to get him out of bed and use the charge card. I don’t think our charge account, I don’t think that that would ever happen, that you have to have a charge card or check at that particular thing. But now for an example, if he has got a part that is broken down on a case tractor, and I have got to come from Case itself, and he calls up and orders that part. If the guy sends it COD we are going to pay through the nose for the COD charges. If he says over there, well OK this part is going to be $800. As soon as we receive the check.” Attorney Wassel: “When the check clears.” Chair Polzin: “Yeah, we will send it to you. Well in that case I can see today, because this is the biggest business in t he town of Delavan. And, there are a lot of things that can happen. And there are a lot of things you can’t do, because you are not there to pay in cash. And like he says a lot of business today will not give you anything unless it is COD or you pay by charge card. I agree with you Frank on the part over there is, I would like to know what control that we can have and so on with the charge card.” Supervisor Sessner: “If you had a charge card, who would have it?” Attorney Wassel: “Can you find that analysis?” Chair Polzin: “The two of them right now have a charge card.” Supervisor Sessner: “So, if a mechanic needs a charge card, how is he going to charge…” Chair Polzin: “Well those charges like I said with the Case tractor that would be done during business hours and so on.” Supervisor Sessner: OK Chair Polzin: “The one during the night when snow plowing, a snow plow breaks down and he needs a starter for it or something. I think he deals with Elkhorn, Delavan.” Supervisor Sessner: “All Right” Chair Polzin: “They probably have a number that they can call somebody in the middle of the night for emergency purposes. We would have an account with them.” Clerk Bernsteen: “I guess to kind of put Franks mind at ease. We do have a lot of open accounts, with the local companies. Even some of the places Tom get's his parts from and stuff like that. But there are a lot of places the seminars that we go to and stuff like that, we pay by credit card because, one it is easier, we get our reservation right away and it is confirmed. We know that, that is done and do not have to worry about sending in a check and having them receive it properly. It is not used on a daily basis, if that is what you are worried about. I think it might be used maybe a couple times a month if that.” Chair Polzin: “I need to recess this thing for a minute.” “Another thing is that when you make the towns association for that convention, that is normally been done in the past as far as I know, has been done with the charge chard also. Did I miss anything as far as what the Town Board is thinking about as far as…” Supervisor Sessner: “I was just wondering there are only 2 cards. I was thinking that everyone has a charge card.” Chair Polzin: “No, No.” Clerk Bernsteen: “They have to go through either Pat or myself if they need anything. It is not like they even have a copy of the number. They have to come to us first.” Supervisor Jones: “Even outside the charge card, the thought occurs to me is there some kind of a maximum expenditure that we have that anybody that wants to buy something for the town. If they exceed this amount, that they have to get prior approval for… Do we have a policy that says if it is over $1000 you must, you have to come to the board for approval or $2000 or $5000 or whatever? Is there a number?” Chair Polzin: “Why don’t we come, Frank why don’t we come back to this issue and come back to the next issue we are on number 4, we are on number 3 right now is there a need for the town for a charge card OK. So if we go onto number 4, I think this is where we should be taking and spending our time. Policy on attending meetings; advance approval by Town Board, or if the Town Board wishes, which I would recommend. That the Town Chair be given the authority to approve expenditures for meetings and so on. But it should be in writing and for an example we have requisitions over here. And if you start out with an account with $2000 in it, and we are going to talk about account also, because there is one you can’t do anything with it there is not enough money into it. But anyhow, for an example there is a request put in to go to a school and you start out with $2000. Then they put the request to go to the school, the reasoning for the school and where the school is being held at. So the entire Town Board has that information to them. And then you subtract the amount of, off of their requisition, you subtract the amount of their request. Now, you are not going to have the request in there for mileage and food and so on. This would be for the seminar or schooling. Where the Town Board can keep track of who is going to school, where they are going to school, how much they are spending, how much is in the account, what is the balance. Then after, well I am going to give you an example, I guess ah… They are both going to a Clerk and Treasurers Convention in Green Bay. I strongly recommend that they go to it. But that convention is $809 a piece for it. They are talking about riding together and if they do the mileage is going to be shared against the accounts. Rather than using all of Dixie’s money or all of Pat’s money for it if they ride together. Mileage would be split in half, so they would be charged against, charged against Dixie on it. Then the food they got receipts, and they can have according to what we have in progress is an ordinance or resolution or whatever it is. Is, they get $35.00 a day that they can spend for food. But they have to have receipts. Well last year I lost a couple receipts, but I come back and I had put on, and I had explained it to them that I lost it and I was paid. So I was paid, there were no problems, I was paid that amount. Like you said they trust that….and I don’t think that anyone is going to cheat.” Supervisor Sessner: “I have a questions, who approves, like you said she approves, there should be something set up where, who approves anybody within the town employees and so forth to go to an educational program, meeting, conferences and so forth. Or any occurrences with out, whose approval should they get? There should be some approval.” Chair Polzin: “I believe that, and this is only my opinion. I believe that the Town Chairman should be given that authority because some of this stuff you can’t wait until the next meeting.” Supervisor Sessner: “No, I agree.” Clerk Bernsteen: “From what I have heard and what I have talked to some of the other departments, it will usually go through what ever committee first, depending on how expensive it is. If it something really high like ours is they will take it to the board, and make sure they get approval.” Attorney Wassel: “You have to break it down too because, as you know we had a police arbitration on educational expense issues. So, police stuff is governed by contract, the department heads are the ones who make those determinations. So right now the only people who and obviously they have a budget. They come in and make a request, you call it a voucher, and there is a name that you call it.” Clerk Bernsteen: “Check Request.” Attorney Wassel: “They make a check request in writing and so the staff is supposed to look at that and make sure they have enough funds. It is up to the department head to make sure they are within their budget; they are running over on whether it is educational expenses or whatever. And someone is not going to Australia to learn how to do something, so, it is all a matter of responsibility fall largely on the department heads as far as prior approval for seminars that sort of thing. Seminars are something that doesn’t ordinarily come up on short notice; they are well publicized, well in advance. Typically the Clerk and Treasurer in their budget or part of the office staff budget some amount allocated for education expense. The question is who is better suited to make the call as to what someone’s educational needs are. The Clerk who goes to clerks seminar, or a Town Board member who is a Town Board member. Usually the clerk is in a better position to know where their deficiencies lye and where they need their schooling. So usually at least in the past the clerks never had to come to the board and say I need money to go to this seminar. It is in their budget as a long as they are within budget; checks are written and authorized by the finance committee before the board meeting.” Chair Polzin: “I personally think that part of it should be changed, because I think over there a requisition should be turned in, that way the Town Board knows where they are going the day they are going and so on and so forth if something should happen in the government that we had…” Attorney Wassel: “Are you referring to just the Clerk and Treasurer now, not the other departments?” Chair Polzin: “No, No, this is the government. If I am going to go some place, I should have to fill out a requisition and I couldn’t approve my own. That would have to be approved by the Town Board. But the others over there I think they should all go through the Town Board process and to speed things along, and it can’t come through the Town Board, the chairman would have the right to do it. Now I just authorized a bill for Dixie for $809. She turned in her requisition, she has $2000 in her account, we deducted the $809 out of it, and she had an estimated mileage on it and estimated food onto it. Well because we don’t know if the two are going to ride together and split the mileage bit and then you take it out of Dixie’s then you have to go back and put it back into hers and so on. I think over there the $809 for the schooling. I signed that for that so they could pay for it, otherwise it is on the charge card and we will be charged interest on it.” Supervisor Jones: “Well I am, I think that we discuss schooling thing, how about that old police car we rode in today. Now, take for example that thing breaks down and it is going to take $1500 of repair work. Ah, does anybody just automatically go ahead and fix it or do they have to get the $1500 dollars authorized.” Chair Polzin: “If it was that much money in that old car, it would come to public works.” Supervisor Jones: “Who would decide that?” Chair Polzin: “The committee on the public works.” Attorney Wassel: “In that regard Tom Thiele, if it is a $20 repair, in other words he needs to get a part and install it. Tom just does that, you know it is part of his function.” Supervisor Jones: “Well you know $200 does not go very far anymore.” Attorney Wassel: “But if that vehicle in not worth $1500 he is going to bring that to the board as a whole and say look, this is going to cost $1500 to fix this thing, it is not even worth $1500 what do you want to do?” Chair Polzin: “And he does bring that stuff to the public works committee. I serve on the Public Works Committee, and I believe Herb is on that, public works. And that meets next Wednesday, so …” Supervisor Jones: “So, there is not prescribed limit that ah…we have established that if you are going to have to spend over $1000 you have to get approved by the board or $500, whatever the number is.” Clerk Bernsteen: “Frank, I think most of the departments and stuff like that, they have a general idea of where that limit is. I don’t think that anybody has ever taken advantage of it or anything. I would say maybe anything over $500 or $1000; they are going to get approval for it. Because it is just a common courtesy, they are not just going to go spend the town’s money on….” Attorney Wassel: “We, at one point implemented a policy, and I think this was under the Fahey Administration, and we had a spending limit even with vouchers. And I don’t remember what the amount was, but I want to say it was like $250. And when Jim was in the Highway Department, the whole thing blew apart because it was alleged that he tried to circum vent it because instead of ordering one $750 part he ordered 3-$250 parts from 3 different places, and did not have to get prior approval. So, that was the allegation at the time. So, again I think that you are looking at a situation where generally speaking common sense applies if you want; it is not bad to have hard and fast rules as far as what can be preapproved.” Chair Polzin: “And I don’t, I really do not know what had happened, because I did not see anything on it afterwards, but we had a tractor that someone on the town park hit something, I don’t know what. But they bent the mower deck. They wanted to buy a new one, and I went over and looked at it and I said, “That can be repaired.” It was bent. You know we have a torch over there and so forth, and I laid a 2X4 across it to see how bad it was bent. I believe they repaired that mower. Well, now the deck of that was a lot of money. Now he wasn’t going to buy it, he was looking for authorization from the town to go out and buy that. So they had been good on that part. But I had one supplier to the town that ah, we spent $10,000 for a mower. And they wanted $10,800 and I called them up and said, “The Town Board has authorized $10,000, now if you want to take $10,000 you have got yourself a sale.” If you want the $10,800 then it is going to have to go back to the board and I doubt very much if they are going to approve it.” Well he say’s “why don’t I just sell you the tractor for $10,000 and I will bill you for some other parts to come up to that money.” I said,” That will never happen, if I had an employee, that I caught doing that, he would be done.” But I said, “We don’t try to get in and play funny little games to get where it is at.” I guess over there if we stick to that policy, you get caught trying to pull some funny little games on the town you are out. And I think we can do it. I don’t think anyone would get the backing on it. But I don’t feel we have got a bad town. You know, the Highway Department is hard working people, and Tom as fit in where he is helping in the winter time. The town, well we are still one man short. I don’t know if you are all familiar now that Mike Petkoff withdrew his resignation Monday morning. So, Mike is still with us, so we are not two short we are still just one. And they haven’t been hounding the town for another man, because Tom has been helping out when he can in snow plowing and so forth. So, I guess you can look at the, Town Board members trusting the people that work for us. And if you find out different, then that is something else, but just like Libby, you know he is Federal Government, he deserved jail time. When you go in and lie, and stuff like that. And I don’t think we have to worry about that part here. Somebody’s reputation here I think is worth a lot more than a couple of bucks. So, on the same subject, I asked Pat to fill out a requisition for the schooling. Which is again $809, the same price for each individual, and pulled out the budget and they only put $500 in the budget. So, right now she is short for the school, just the school now no mileage, no nothing. She is short $309 to even go to that school. That will be on the budget for approval at the Town Board meeting.” Treasurer Morelli: “That is because the…, it is a once a year thing and Shari felt that she was not going to go. This was done before she left.” Chair Polzin: “You know it is not a one year deal, ah it goes on for a few years. I think Shari was long enough got up to her certificate or something. But, the town over there that they highly recommend, the new elected officials and the people to get their certificate.” Supervisor Sessner: “So she would be over budget to go there. Now who can she go to say I like you approval to spend the extra $500.” Chair Polzin: “Town Board” Supervisor Sessner: “But the board only meets once a month! Now could he just go to the Chairman if it is a rush thing and get his approval.” Chair Polzin: “If you make a motion and it is second and make an approval of it, then I can.” Supervisor Sessner: “I think we have to do that.” Attorney Wassel: “I think you run into some serious fiscal issues if you do it that way, because one of the things that Pat is ultimately going to have to deal with is when there is something that is going to exceed your budgeted line item, where is that money going to come from. And so, what we have done is resolutions by the board to transfer funds from one budget item to another, whether it to be to take it out of contingency or surplus of whatever. But that is part of board function. My concern is that if you have that one person on a stop gap basis make the call, then the issue still remains where you are going to take it from. I guess I am trying to think, trying to figure where that situation would arise where you have an emergency.” Clerk Bernsteen: “I guess it wouldn’t really be an emergency, because we know ahead of time.” Supervisor Sessner: “The… it could go to the Town Board.” Clerk Bernsteen: “Yes, I guess I don’t see that happening.” Chair Polzin: “I don’t know about their conventions. I don’t know how many they allow in a class. It depends on what it is, some schooling’s they got 100 people they allow. Once they hit the 100 unless there is a cancellation nobody else can go to it. I don’t know in this situation if anything like that would be. But as far as authorization, I guess over there, there has to be faith into their, that I am not going to authorize anything that I don’t feel is in the best interest in the Town of Delavan. Then it would have to come, the reservations could be made, OK. Then it could come before the Town…once the reservations are made, it still could come to Town Board for approval. But to go ahead and make the reservation and so on and so forth, I think we are foolish if, well if you want to make someone else in charge of that that is fine. But I think we have to have one person that has some authority over here and the state statue says, and I don’t think it has changed and Steve you can correct me if I am wrong, because this goes back to 1988, is when this was done, And I don’t believe it has really changed, but under the Chairman, and this is from Rick Stadelman the executive director “Under 60.241 (e), the town chairperson has their responsibility in fact to act on the behalf of the Town Board to see that the town orders, and ordinances are obeyed.” Well anything the Town Board takes and makes a motion on and seconds it and approves it is orders from the Town Board and somebody has to see that they are carried out. Has that been changed?” Attorney Wassel: “No.” Chair Polzin: “Ok. Ah, he is also in charge that the peace and order are maintained in the town. And to obtain necessary assistance if available in a case of emergency as provided under chapter 166. Although, the town chairperson has the responsibility to doing peace and order in the town, and has the special powers in case of emergency under chapter 166. It is not recommended that the town chairperson attempt to make arrests, but rather seek enforcement of law through constables, police officers or the sheriffs department. And I don’t know if that has been changed, but if it is not it should be. I mean, there is no way I am going to go out and try to arrest somebody as town chair…” Attorney Wassel: “And I think that language is there, bare in mind that we are more of an urban town and there even in Walworth county you have Town of Sugar Creek, Town of Lafayette, Town of Darien, some very small towns that don’t have a Police Department, some don’t even have fire departments for that matter. And so, if the town enacts an ordinance, if they enact a burning ordinance they enact a rubbish ordinance whatever, they don’t have a Police Department how are they going to enforce it? So, that language is there, I mean if you are going to look language, then you start looking at the town constable language, so that is pretty archaic and most of it doesn’t really apply to our circumstances.” Chair Polzin: “No, but what I would like for the Town Board to take and authorize or just whatever that the town chair is the responsible person that takes and makes sure that whatever you vote on, those orders are carried out in a timely fashion.” Attorney Wassel: “Careful what you wish for Wayne…” Chair Polzin: (Laughs) Well hey ah, who is going to look out for it, do you want all five Town Board members once something is voted on, they” Attorney Wassel: “Alright here is the question? First of all if it is an ordinance, the Police Department is going to enforce it. Your building inspector is going to enforce it, your fire marshal is going to enforce it.” Chair Polzin: “No, No.” Attorney Wassel: “If it is a motion that is made to adopt a resolution saying that girls scouts are great, and we should hang a banner up saying girl scouts are great. Somebody has to contact the Highway Department and tell them to hang that banner up. If you are going to have a town administrator you as the town chair are going to say it is my responsibility to do this, but I am delegating it to you to make sure that this is done. And that is probably how this is going to shake out.” Chair Polzin: “Yeah and that is the way it should be.” Attorney Wassel: “Right” Chair Polzin: “Now, when we take and the Town Board orders and I am going to use the filing cabinets for an example. Those filing cabinets it’s not what anybody thinks we should have, or whatever. When the Town Board made the motion to buy 4 filing cabinets with a lock on to them, votes on it that is the decision of the Town Board of what we are going to buy. It is not somebody else that makes that decision for the Town Board.” Attorney Wassel: “I am not sure I understand, but you are right if the board makes a decision then the board makes a decision.” Chair Polzin: “Well, at the meeting we took, in the first meeting that I had with the new members we took and authorized for the Town Board members to each have a 4 drawer filing cabinet with a lock on it that would lock the drawers.” Attorney Wassel: “OK” Chair Polzin: “We don’t have them yet today.” Attorney Wassel: “We should…” Chair Polzin: “Yeah that was an order from the Town Board. It is not a two drawer file cabinet; it is a 4 drawer that was ordered by the Town Board. Now, that should be done in a timely fashion, not when somebody else decides down the road that oh I guess better buy them for them. I mean a timely fashion, and I am not saying they have to be done yesterday after a Town Board meeting.” Attorney Wassel: “Well, OK. So if you are asking for that authority if you made the call to order the file cabinets, playing devils advocate mind you, but you carried out the order of the Town Board. If you are the Town Chairman why haven’t you called and ordered the cabinets.” Chair Polzin: “Because, the things that’s out are the clerk duties to order that stuff.” Attorney Wassel: “OK” Chair Polzin: “But, I make sure she ordered them and they are here and properly ordered on to it. It is not the job of Town Chairman for that, it is my job to see that the clerk buys the stuff and so on as to what the Town Board ordered.” Attorney Wassel: “I looked at the ordinance in anticipation of tonight’s meeting, because I looked at the clerks responsibilities. Not because she asked me to, but because I decided to do so. The very last catch all in there is such other matters that may be directed by the Town Board pursuant to this ordinance or the code itself. And had the motion it self been to instruct the clerk to order the cabinets, then the clerk would have had that responsibility to do it. If the motion was to go ahead and buy them and now the order of the Town Board has so to speak has not been fulfilled, the question is we have a gap. And unless the board had made that a directive to the clerk, such other activities as maybe be directed by the board. Maybe that is a, I am not trying to split hairs, I am trying to solve a problem.” Chair Polzin: “The order was to buy the cabinets, and it is the Town Chairman’s job to see that those orders are carried out. Now, as far as I am concerned with those cabinets or anything else… Then in other words in every motion that we make were going to have to include in there who we want to fill out orders of the Town Board.” Attorney Wassel: “And I will give you and example of what you are taking about: When there, these people are just dying to say something, so you want to recognize it. In the past when there was a motion, and Frank I don’t know if you would go to the board meetings after a heated Planning Commission item. The board would make a motion to recommend to the county whatever on the zoning issue, let’s say. And part of that motion would be to direct the clerk to notify Walworth county of whatever the decision of the board. And that was part of that motion, and that is an example of what I am talking about. So, I think that clearly if the board gives the clerk an order to do something and it is a lawful order then I think then, I know the Clerk has responsibility to full fill it. And maybe we are saying the same thing, you are just saying hey! I am the Town Chairman, and I want to make the stuff the board has said comes to fruition and so there is a little bit of a gap. And I am not trying to be hyper technical, but maybe you want to hear from your staff, because obviously there is a big gap that exists.” Chair Polzin: “Well I….” Clerk Bernsteen: “Can I…” Chair Polzin: “Just a minute... Before this over here… All I want to clarify, and if it takes in the motion when we took and voted the motion to buy the cabinets. If we have to on everyone of those motions, that I make a motion that we go ahead and get the four file cabinets and we direct to the clerk to go out and purchase them and we expect them to be purchased within a week. Well I, to me over there that is going way beyond the call of duty.” Clerk Bernsteen: “No. it’s…” Chair Polzin: “There is no reason that we should have to name everything and every person for it.” Clerk Bernsteen: “Wayne, can I just say part of the reason that I have not ordered these cabinets is: one, I know you want a four drawer cabinet with a lock. OK, that is all I know, there is a lot of other things to take into consideration if you want a certain color or I could go buy a real cheap one, and as soon as I get it in here if you don’t like it, I would rather have you tell me what cabinet that you want.” Attorney Wassel: “Whether it is letter size, legal size, there are laterals.” Clerk Bernsteen: “I can pick….” Supervisor Jones: “Can I say something here.” Chair Polzin: “Sure” (Laugh) Supervisor Jones: “It is my understanding that, I mean that it is completely impractical to expect the whole Town Board to be giving orders to these little ladies over there. They would be in such a sorry situation to have 5 people coming over there and each one giving them different orders. Now, my understanding, the way this whole thing is supposed to work is that things are decided here and then it is the function of the chairman to take it to whoever is supposed to carry it out.” Attorney Wassel: “What has happened if I may, Frank is this. The last two Town Chairpersons that we have had spent a lot of time at the town hall. Probably 50 + hours per week and a lot of the things you are suggesting, they just did it. And I think that as a result of that, and I will say too, that one of Dixie’s predecessors had difficulty in managing the position. And I think as a result of that, the town chair at the time said, if this…it has got to get done. And if this person is not going to do it, who is going to do it, so they did it themselves. It kind of blossomed into having a 50 hour full time person doing that sort of thing.” Supervisor Jones: “We are about to take another step in this chain of command thing here. And I have been assuming that things would work. Town Board, Town Chair, and then the Administrator, in other words there again, we can’t have 5 people giving the administrator orders.” Attorney Wassel: “Right” Supervisor Jones: “We have to have one person, and that only person logically can be the chairman.” Supervisor Sessner: “Right” Attorney Wassel: “It is whoever the board designates really. I mean….” Chair Polzin: “NO” Supervisor Jones: “No, it can’ be.” Chair Polzin: “No, this is strictly an elected official.” Attorney Wassel: “What I am saying though is. OK you talk about board action, there are also committees. In committees if they are operating within their budget, if they are doing something that they are permitted to do, the lake committee does a whole lot of stuff. They redo SGS stuff, they do stuff, and that the board may or may not know what they are doing. That committee chair has to have some degree of autonomy. I am not saying, you ought to have 5 bosses, don’t misunderstand me.” Chair Polzin: “If those committees, they don’t even enter into this picture Steve. When the committee’s come with something, everything is done on a recommendation from the committee. I don’t care what committee it is, when it comes up now next Wednesday night. We are going to be doing the budget, not the budget, the agenda. All right now, each one when it is there, there is a list of all the committees. And each one is asked, do you have anything for the agenda.” Attorney Wassel: “Right” Chair Polzin: “Yeah ah, the Police Department recommends we do this, we do that. The Public Works recommends that we do this or we do that. So everything goes through the Town Board, or that goes through the agenda. But it is all recommendations from the committee. So now, when the park down there for an example something comes through on a request. Once we authorize it, then she has to see that it is carried out.” Attorney Wassel: “I Agree.” Chair Polzin: “And all of the committees are the same way. But when the Town Board is ordered something for the Town Board where there is no committee or anything else is what we are talking about.” Attorney Wassel: “OK” Chair Polzin: “Because, otherwise we are overstepping the committees and how long are our committees going to last when the Town Board does all of the action for them. They have no authority, well what the sense of having a committee.” Attorney Wassel: “You are absolutely right.” Chair Polzin: “And the same thing as I am saying here, and I don’t care if the Town Board members want somebody else to do it, then I hope that they take care of the complaints also. Frank went along today to see the complaints on it. Frank I believe there were six roads that we went out on. We had one dead tree over hanging the road. And then tonight after I left here this afternoon, I went out on another complaint, and I will tell you where it is at. It is at North Shore Drive by McGregor’s. Where the airplane…” Attorney Wassel: “On the curve.” Chair Polzin: “On the curve, when you go down North Shore the first curve you turn to the right, you stay on North Shore Drive, if you turn to the left and you go down to the Yacht Club. Well I drove out there, because he had a complaint about that corner and how many accidents there has been there and so on. And he said over there, that he had talked with the Highway Department and they said they were going to do something, but he figured they went back to drinking their coffee. Well, I went over there and the sign for the curve is... You are up to the sign before you can read the sign. The trees are hanging down; the bushes are out and so on. Something has got to be done. Then I went to the house and I was going to talk to him and let him know I was out and checked it and I would see that the Highway Department done something. They were not home. But I am going to call him and let him know that I followed up on his concerns and so on and so forth. That’s the Town Chairman’s job. And he is to go out now, and I have to go back to the Highway Department and talk to Mike. And say Mike, “I think you should go out and take a look at that situation out there on those trees and everything”. “But, ya know on the other stuff ah, I said with it, if somebody wants to do the job I …get paid $2000 more than you do. And 10 -12 times more work than the supervisors do. I told John Pelletier that many times. And there is only one reason I took this job, is we got four new members here. Somebody has to be with some experience on the Town Board. I happen to have 10 years on the board as Chairman; I got four years as a Supervisor, so I am on my 15th year.” Supervisor Jones: “Well getting back to what we are all after here is, is it true or not that we should have one person that is in charge of this group here? Is that true or not???” Attorney Wassel: “It is a loaded question…. in charge of the group. I mean…” Supervisor Jones: “Somebody to carry out the orders, the functions of what we want carried out. Are each one of us going to be independently and not responsible to anybody else, that is total kayos.” Attorney Wassel: “No, but what I think has ordinarily occurred is this. If a board member were to say for instance, one of you who may be on the Highway Committee said that issue up there on Cedar Point and North Shore I’ll talk to the Highway Department and make sure that is taken care of. And the Chair says go ahead and designate…” Supervisor Jones: “So he is delegated the authority.” Attorney Wassel: “Right and or if Wayne is in Florida or something, then what, who then is going to do it. The committee people have stepped up and taken care of those types of considerations that need to be addressed on an interim basis. It is always taken care of.” Chair Polzin: “They bought me a cell phone that they can get a hold of me no matter where I am. If there was something that happened in an emergency, I am available. I got the cell phone in my pocket now, but I have it with me all the time. You have got to be available if you are going to be the situation that you have to handle things in the town.” Supervisor Jones: “I mean I’m damn good at giving orders. All you have to do is I can do it and I will have those people given lots of orders. But that is not going to work. As I view it, it has got to go through the chairman.” Attorney Wassel: “It has always been understood in the past I am going years ago. If the board took an action that required some follow up, in other words notification, whether you have to notify county zoning whether it be to go out and buy something. It has always been implicit in the motion that the staff took care of that.” Supervisor Jones: “Exactly. “ Attorney Wassel: “It was just done.” Supervisor Jones: “If he is going to delegate it to the staff, that they do it. I can’t see that us supervisors here. That we have on every god damn motion, that we have got to follow it up and find out that they have done it. We are not here to do that. That is his job. And everyone went over there and was asking them to make sure something was done, they would soon be pretty nuts.” Chair Polzin: “Well, I was told at the Plan Commission meeting, that the order was given at the Planning Commission meeting to contact the county, that one had never came before the town the other one, that night we acted on there’s which had to be a recommendation of the town. When she was told to contact the county, I was told that is my job. I didn’t say anything that night. But, I knew it wasn’t my job. But the next morning, because they meet at 9:00, at 8:05 I called Walworth County and said, on your agenda you have got these two subjects on there. That were asking over there that you take no action on it and I explained why. And, this happened to me the third one down the chain of commands. And so I said, I will call the township and have them fax over, just something over there that the town Planning Commission wishes you not to take any action.” Supervisor Jones: “Well what I am getting at is, I got three or four different committees and I, you want me to go to everyone of them to find out that their following through on the actions, she has got 2, 3, 4 different committees, he’s got 2, 3, 4 committees, he’s got some. You want all of us beaten our tails giving them orders. Hey my committee, how come you did their stuff, my stuff is supposed to be done. No he has got to do that..” Attorney Wassel: “Well I…” Clerk Bernsteen: “Can I make a quick statement…” Supervisor Sessner: “Listening t all of this and I have got some comments I have written down and …my recommendation, I can make a motion too. That the Administrative staff of the town (Clerk, Treasurer, Part Timer) report to the Town Chairman. The Town Chairman then gives the directions of what should be done. If we have a problem, with something. The Clerk, Administrative staff or something. I want to go to him. Then he can take care of it, then he knows what’s going on. He or she the Town Chairman should know what is going on. To me the Town Chairman is the boss, the manager. OK and we do our work, we go through him. Supervisor Sessner: “You are right Frank, you can’t have five people tell him what to do.” Clerk Bernsteen: “OK, Granted I kind of agree with you to a point, but the board to must realize, myself, Pat, and Jan are not the boards SECRETARIES. That is not part of our job title.” Supervisor Sessner: “I am not saying that.” Clerk Bernsteen: “I am elected, Pat is elected, and Jan isn’t. I guess that is where I see where this is going because you guys think that you as a board can bring us anything…NO, we have our own specific duties, and we want to help you guys as much as we can when we can.” Attorney Wassel: “But by the same token the board has the authority under the code to say in such other matters as the board directs. So, you get into splitting hairs where if the board says, I am using silly example but, Wayne says I want you to go pick up my dry cleaning, which I may say to my secretary and I can get away with it in the private sector. That is a whole different matter. The question is it a lawful directive of the board and that is what I am getting at. And so if the board authorizes it, we will come back to the file cabinets. If the board authorizes the purchase of file cabinets, it is up to the staff to carry that out. And it has always been implicit. If the staff has questions, the staff should ask the questions, if they are not getting answers then they put the questions in writing. You get them in your mail box.” Chair Polzin: “For ten years with Dorothy Fladten and Pat Kohler, I never had one problem with anything of this nature; it was automatically taken care of.” Clerk Bernsteen: “Wayne, I am not Dorothy Fladten and I am not Pat Kohler. Your are dealing with a new board.” Chair Polzin: “No, but it all relates again to if we have got to say every time we take and make a motion that we want the Town Clerk to do this or what ever, we shouldn’t have to do that. If we have to make a whole list of what the Town Clerk is supposed to do, I guess that is what we are going to have to do. But it is not moving the government along, it is not working together, and it is not making it happen. And if I came into you, since you have been the clerk. I don’t care if it be a supervisor or a chairman. Have I ever came into the office and said I want this and I want it now. Or do I normally come in and say, if you get a chance I would like this and we are going to need it on the Town Board, or would you see that this is on the Town Board agenda. But I have never come in and gave direct orders to you on anything.” Clerk Bernsteen: “You come across as direct orders; you do not come across as could you do this for me. That is not how you come across.” Chair Polzin: “Well Dixie, you come across the same way over there, I am not going to do it.” Clerk Bernsteen: “I have never said I am not going to do it.” Chair Polzin: “That’s not my job.” Clerk Bernsteen: “I don’t think I have ever said that, that is not my job.” Chair Polzin: “Well, I have been told that over in the office you didn’t have to follow the orders I only had one vote, there is no difference than a Supervisor you told me today that the Town Chairman is not god to or whatever the word was that you used from Rick Stadelman. And I never said the Town Chairman was and I have always said from day one, the chairman is one vote, and it takes a quorum of the Town Board or the members that are there. It’s got to still be a quorum. But if there are only three members there, it can be three members; it is still a quorum of the entire board. The town chair has some duties, and I have read off some of them over there that he has to do. I know my job very well. But when I get somebody in the office over there telling me what my job is. Yeah, it kind of raises the hair on the back of my neck a little bit. And I was told that morning, when I called out, to have the county, send a fax to the county, tell them than, that’s not what my job.” Clerk Bernsteen: “OK” Chair Polzin: “That is not my job” Clerk Bernsteen: You have to realize this is a communication barrier here. Because Jan Chair Polzin: “That is what this is all about.” Clerk Bernsteen: “And I realize that but… She did not know what you wanted to do as a planning secretary.” Chair Polzin: “She has a mouth….” Clerk Bernsteen: “She…” Chair Polzin: “When I called out there and told her what I wanted to do, is fax over what the Planning Commission asked the county not take action. But no, that is not my job that is your job.” Clerk Bernsteen: “You want to know why…she has no clue what to do.” Chair Polzin: “Well I guess over there that …” Attorney Wassel: “She has been the planning secretary for along time.” Clerk Bernsteen: “She has never done it before.” Attorney Wassel: “How long has she been planning secretary? How long has she been on Frank? Four Years?” Supervisor Jones: “I don’t know.” Clerk Bernsteen: “She has never written letters, it has always been done by the Chair. Her basic responsibilities since she has been on Planning Commission, is to take the minutes, transcribe the minutes, and she puts out the packets. She, basically when she was hired as Deputy Clerk, it was her job to do the Planning Commission but to only spend an hour a day.” Supervisor Jones: “An Hour a day” Attorney Wassel: “You mean…” Clerk Bernsteen: “An hour a day, on Planning Commission.” Attorney Wassel: “Well that is not like she hits the hour she says I cease.” Clerk Bernsteen: “No, and no she does not do that.” Attorney Wassel: “OK, I hope not.” (Laughter) Chair Polzin: “Well, you know with it, it is the same way I was told about that hour a day. I was also told by Jan that, if I wanted to I could get a different secretary for the Planning Commission, because she had plenty of work within the office. And if I get a secretary for the Planning Commission: you won’t have a job in there, because you will no longer be deputy clerk. Well, I think Dixie took exception to it, but I am not going to be threatened by an employee, because I would have had to have an emergency meeting with the town after the 24 hour notice, asking that that funding for paying for a deputy clerk would have been jerked. Then if Dixie would have wanted it; if the Town Board passed it, Dixie would have to pay it out of her own salary, because with it over there you can’t have somebody like Jan telling the Town Chairman what to do.” Clerk Bernsteen: “I don’t think she….” Chair Polzin: “My orders, well my orders go to her. Now that was twice she told me what my job was. I think I know what my job is a hell of a lot better.” Clerk Bernsteen: “But you, if you want her to change what she had been previously doing; what she knows what she was supposed to do. It is your responsibility to communicate to her and go to her and say I would really like you to start doing this, and this, and this.” Chair Polzin: “She don’t have the time. She is so busy in there, she doesn’t have the time. And if I want to get a secretary, she has plenty of work in that without being secretary of the Planning Commission. That is what she told me.” Clerk Bernsteen: “Well, actually that is very true Wayne.” Chair Polzin: “Well, I have heard other things over there to that there is a lot of stuff that goes on, and for an example with the records. You and Jan both done gone through the records for Jim Wolfgram, looking for something.” Clerk Bernsteen: “I went through the records.” Chair Polzin: “Well that ain’t what she said, and you also said, Jan and I. And I said something about Jim Wolfgram could have went down and looked at the box of records and said that is the one right there.” Clerk Bernsteen: “I am protecting him, because there are other records down there of his.” Chair Polzin: “Well, what it is, is we are not working together.” Supervisor Jones: “How can we get the office people to do the office work?” Clerk Bernsteen: “We are doing the office work.” Supervisor Jones: “Every time, everything Wayne asks you to do, or most everything he gets a ah..” Clerk Bernsteen: “I think a lot of it …” Supervisor Jones: “Static” Clerk Bernsteen: “It is not that he gets static, it’s…he came into this position, he has different ideas than his predecessor, OK.” Chair Polzin: “Hopefully, yes.” Clerk Bernsteen: “Well, but the thing is Jan doesn’t have a clue to what those are, neither do I. And I am learning, Jan does…” Supervisor Jones: “Well, that is what you should say, I don’t know.” Clerk Bernsteen: “I have.” Supervisor Jones: “How are we supposed to do that, No, you just say, I am not going to do it.” Clerk Bernsteen: “No I did not say that.” Supervisor Jones: “I don’t feel good doing… I stood there and listened to you about making reservations to this convention. You said I am not going do it I don’t feel comfortable doing it. And you didn’t offer a thing about well I don’t know how to do it. or ah…” Clerk Bernsteen: “No, I already had, I already had…” Supervisor Jones: No you just said I am not going to do it.” Chair Polzin: “And here is the memo I put out to the Town Board members. “Our Town Clerk refuses to make the reservations for you. I will be more than happy to make those reservations for you so hopefully, we can stay at the same place. What I need from you is a smoking, non-smoking, two beds, one king, special needs you may need.” So if you told me and Frank, I didn’t realize Frank was there, but that is exactly what you told me. They can make their own reservations.” Supervisor Jones: It wasn’t like, I don’t know how to do it. Clerk Bernsteen: “What is wrong with them making a hotel reservation?” Chair Polzin: “What is wrong with the Town Clerk doing it so we are all at the same hotel, and you have the prices? I even gave you…” Clerk Bernsteen: “I had already tried and spent over 2 hours trying to get everyone in the same hotel. It was taking up so much of my time, I didn’t have time to do that and do all my other work.” Chair Polzin: “Well you should, you don’t know.” Clerk Bernsteen: “And I even tried to explain that to you, “ Chair Polzin: “I don’t know what they want smoking, non-smoking.” Clerk Bernsteen: “And that is true too. I don’t know what kind of room they want.” Chair Polzin: “Well you know how long it took me to do this and I am not a secretary and I am not a typist. It probably took me 10 minutes at the very most and then hand them out to the Town Board members. So there is no big deal on it. But it just seems that everything that I ask to have done comes out to be a big deal. And I don’t feel it is. I feel we should be working together.” Clerk Bernsteen: “I think a lot of it Wayne to be really honest with you, is your approach. The way you come to us and ask things.” Chair Polzin: “Well Dixie, you may have your opinion, but when you come into my… When you have a ah.. Question because you don’t understand it. How many times have you ever come to that door when I have been there? And I have been here a lot. How many times have you ever come and asked me a question about something? “ Clerk Bernsteen: “You want me to be really honest Wayne?” Chair Polzin: “Yes, I do.” Clerk Bernsteen: “OK, part of the reason I don’t is because one, I feel you do not know the answer.” Chair Polzin: “OK, Then I am going to ask you another question? If you feel that I don’t know what is going on, then why did you take and join into the group that was supporting the candidates, they spent money campaigning for you. Clerk Bernsteen: “Wayne, that is totally different.” Chair Polzin: “They spent money, went door to door.” Clerk Bernsteen: “Wayne, that is totally different.” Chair Polzin: “I wrote a letter supporting you and everything else, why didn’t’ you say no I don’t want your help.” Attorney Wassel: “I think we are kind of getting off the track….” (Several people taking all at once, could not decipher) Chair Polzin: “No, I am trying to find out the attitude, what it is.” Clerk Bernsteen: “That doesn’t have anything to do with the communications here.” Chair Polzin: “It does when you are telling me about attitude, and that is where the attitude should come right down the line from everything.” Supervisor Jones: What we need from you is, is for you to say, to look for ways to find out how you can do it, and how you can’t help.” Clerk Bernsteen: “OK” Supervisor Jones: “But you are doing exactly the opposite, now” Clerk Bernsteen: “I try..” Supervisor Jones: “You are looking for reasons …” Clerk Bernsteen: “No…” Supervisor Jones: “Yes, you are looking for reasons why you can’t do it.” Chair Polzin: “Did you make any statements down to the Pirates Cove last month about the Town Chairman.” Clerk Bernsteen: “I really have no idea Wayne.” Supervisor Jones: “Well we can’t even function; you are fighting everything we want to do. The board can’t physically every little motion make motions direct the Clerk do this and the Treasurer do this, and so on and so forth. We can’t do that, we can’t function that way. You have to take the initiative, and say this what the…” Clerk Bernsteen: “OK, I will take the initiative.” Supervisor Jones: “And how can I do that. How can I accomplish that? You are not doing that.” Clerk Bernsteen: “I will do that, OK, but, when I don’t… what you want… and granted I do agree with you yes the file cabinets. I should have asked more questions. But, I didn’t. That is my fault, and I am not afraid to admit when I am wrong.” Supervisor Jones: “That is all we need, is if you don’t know how to do something, you ask, and say I don't know how to do that. Then we will do it or help you find how to do it. But to sit there and say I am not going to do it, I don’t feel comfortable doing it, ah that’s unacceptable.” Clerk Bernsteen: “I don’t think I ever said, I don’t feel comfortable doing it. I don’t’ have a problem doing reservations. I had put out a memo to everyone before Wayne had brought up the convention, to please make your own reservations. I will make the reservations for the convention itself, would you please be considerate of me, because I am learning just like you are. Can’t you make a hotel reservation?” Supervisor Jones: “Yes, we can, but that is what we are paying you to do. If this was my business and you were doing this, you would have been out the door along time ago. I would not tolerate that from a secretary that’s supposed be…” Clerk Bernsteen: “That is where you are wrong, right there. I am not a secretary; I am an elected official just like you.” Supervisor Jones: “An elected official that quote “Perform other duties as may be directed by the Town Board and by the municipal code.” Clerk Bernsteen: “Fine, I don’t have a problem with doing this for you; I guess my point with the board is, you have to realize I have other duties besides that.” Chair Polzin: “I have a question, being that you don’t think that I can answer your questions, who are all the others one in the town that you are asking advice from are giving advice to you, reference your job and my job.” Clerk Bernsteen: “I have been looking it up in the statues, and trying to…” Chair Polzin: “You have also been talking to people, because I know a lot of people in the town, and stuff comes back to me. So I know you have been talking to people in town and taking advice from them. Clerk Bernsteen: “I don’t think I have gotten any advice from anyone.” Chair Polzin: “There is even a night recorded of you in the Pirate’s Cove, where you made comments… this is something out there that is not helping the town, it destroys it.” Clerk Bernsteen: “Well if you want to be that petty Wayne….well I am not even going to go there.” Supervisor Sessner: “Say you are not coming into work today, who do you call to tell that you will not be in today?” Clerk Bernsteen: “For myself?” Supervisor Sessner: “Yes” Clerk Bernsteen: “I would probably call and let the office know that I was not going to be in because, I really don’t know myself.” Supervisor Sessner: “I am asking that?” Clerk Bernsteen: “And I don’t know what the policy is…That is what I guess I would do, is call Jan or Pat and let them know, because there…” Supervisor Sessner: “Was that explained to you when you started?” Clerk Bernsteen: “No.” Supervisor Sessner: “I didn’t realize that. Isn’t there a job description, job responsibilities and accountability for the town, written up?” Attorney Wassel: “Yes,” Clerk Bernsteen: “But it is like the statutes, it is very vague.” Supervisor Sessner: “So maybe we should sit down one day and write something like that. No, really it is a job description.” Chair Polzin: “If you want to get into the statutes over there, the statutes unless you are an attorney, I will guarantee you don’t understand what is in the statute. Because one statue leads into another one and that takes you to another place, and then the other one, case law voids out the statues you read previously.” Attorney Wassel: “Let me put it to you this way Herb. I think, I understand what you are saying, and the problem is when you have a new person, such as Dixie occupying this position you can read all the statutes all the municipal codes of the world and it is like the difference between reading a book on how to drive a car versus getting behind the wheel. And there is just, for instance to say the clerk has to, is the chiefs elections officer and administers a bunch of stuff in that regard, well you don’t know what to do because you have never seen a voting machine. And you don’t know one voting machine from another unless you have actually used one, and open one and know how to operate it, so those little nuances and I don’t know if you could actually write something for that, that just comes from experience, training, and just asking questions of the people that have the answers.” Supervisor Sessner: “So when… I have to ask, when you started were you trained by the prior Town Clerk.” Clerk Bernsteen: “Something’s yes.” Supervisor Sessner: “For how long?” Clerk Bernsteen: “I came in about 2 months before I was elected, but I only came in 3-4 hours a day.” Supervisor Sessner: “OK. I am just wondering how this works.” Clerk Bernsteen: “Actually…” Attorney Wassel: “Well that is one of the issues of elected officials.” Clerk Bernsteen: “I did that on my own time, it was not paid for. I only did it because I didn’t want to come in not knowing anything.” Supervisor Sessner: “OK, I didn’t know this.” Attorney Wassel: “And you are to be applauded for that “. Chair Polzin: “I would like to see a motion made and you make up your mind whether you want to do it, if you want to name whoever onto it. I would like to see a motion made on the policy of for attending meetings, and put in for approval by one person, so all of this stuff goes through, the check on the budgeted amount, how much money was spent out of that account, and then they have to be signed. And the second person that normally signs this stuff for expenditures when it is approved for that is the Clerk. She is the second signature, not the Clerk, I am sorry, the Treasurer. That is the second one that goes on. But I think this has to be done, somebody has to be accountable here, and I guess over there even though the statute says the Town Chair carries out the orders of the Town Board. If I am going to do it I would just as soon a motion is made and seconded, if I am the one that is named given me the authority that, to carry out those particular items. Because somebody has to be in charge!” Supervisor Sessner: “I agree.” Chair Polzin: “And all of the complaints that come into this office, who do they come too? Do they ask for Herb, or Frank, or do they ask for Kay, no, it is the Town Chairman in. So that is where all of the complaints come from. Now the city of Delavan for an example the Mayor can’t vote. And they have an Administrator. Well when the administrator comes in and I talk to the Administrator. And this is something that is going to have to be discussed, is the elected positions for the Clerk and Treasurer has to be eliminated. If you have an Administrator, they do not want to work with elected, for the simple reason that we have got right here, I am elected and you ain’t gonna tell me what to do. And the administrator said over there, that they don’t know if any place that works with a elected Clerk or Treasurer. And we have the power…in the Town of Delavan to create where they are appointed positions. Now, this I talked to the Mayor of Delavan, not the Mayor, the Administrator of Delavan and Elkhorn. And that was the same answer for both of them. And so with it they run into the same problems we are having here.” Supervisor Jones: “I don’t understand what you are asking for?” Chair Polzin: “Well…” Supervisor Sessner: “Could you reword that, because I personally feel that this should be one person in charge, to report to that person.” Chair Polzin: “Well there is so much in it but I will go by just what I have got right down here on the agenda four under new business. The policy on attending meetings, OK, the advanced approval by the Town Board, what I am asking over there that that be changed to the Town Chair. Request to be in writing, they will attend no schoolings without it being in writing, and the requisition filled out and presented to me to make sure there is the money in the budget and make sure they are not overspent on it and to know for the Town Board members where they are staying for how long they are staying, what school they are going to, why they are going to them, and I think that is information that any boss has to know what the employees are doing. And as far as I am concerned the Town Board is the boss to the Town Chairman or the town. They give no authority what so ever to a Clerk or Treasurer to make any rules policies or anything else. That is all left up to the Town Board. So, basically ah... An explanation you know for the meetings plus all the related costs, you know it is not just the $809 to attend a class. Ok where is it at, I know if it is up to Green Bay, I know approximate in mileage where it is at. What about the hotel?” Supervisor Jones: “Well Wayne. That…What you are asking doesn’t address the problem that we are talking about here.” Chair Polzin: “Ok” Supervisor Jones: “All it is addressing is the meeting thing. That is just a minor.” Chair Polzin: “Well I realize that Frank. There is a lot more that has to also be included into that. And I don’t know if you can make a general statement covering everything.” Supervisor Jones: “Well, it seems like you are asking us to make a motion that reaffirms the statute. Is that correct?” Chair Polzin: “No, I…” Attorney Wassel: “I think that…” Supervisor Sessner: “Some of the statutes of the Town Chairman….” Attorney Wassel: “In some regards, yes, I think maybe to put it this way. If the words that act, the board could designate the chair or whatever person to give the orders or decisions of the Town Board. And so that way if the board were to go to purchase file cabinets and then the chair says to the Clerk, why haven’t you purchased the file cabinets, then I think that….” Supervisor Jones: “That’s not what the statue directs now?” Attorney Wassel: “Well I think you have to read that into it, and I think it says to follow through or make sure that the directives of the board are fulfilled. I mean so you are just adding some…Normally these are things that you don’t have to address.” Supervisor Jones: “Correct” Attorney Wassel: “And…” Chair Polzin: “It shouldn’t have too.” Attorney Wassel: “I agree, but what I am saying though is that if you want to come up with something you hope will address these issues then, make a motion to authorize the Chair to carry out the directives of the board. The… I guess that is what you are looking for.” Chair Polzin: “That is to include authorizations of different things that come up that have to be handled before we can wait for a Town Board meeting or call a Special Town Board meeting.” Supervisor Sessner: “Yeah, because you couldn’t wait for all the Town Board meetings.” Supervisor Jones: “This is fine we can come up with something that will word that. But is that going to make any difference over there. Are they still going to follow, I mean is that going to make a difference whether, I mean he is passing the stuff onto them right now. And because we pass this motion is that going to make any difference as far as them complying with what we are already attempting to do.” Attorney Wassel: “I give Dixie an opportunity to respond I guess. I don’t know.” Clerk Bernsteen: “And I said this even when Frank and Wayne came in an were… I don’t have a problem doing anything directed by the board.” Attorney Wassel: “Well then Wayne will be the board, because if the board directs something, Wayne will be the spokesperson to make sure it is done. So… Supervisor Sessner: “Right, it’s a good word.” Chair Polzin: “The first question is did the Town Board direct you to do it. No, because the Town Board meeting has not for another 10 days. Now what do you do in a situation like such as that.” Attorney Wassel: “What are you talking about, like on an approval for something like that or…” Chair Polzin: “Yeah” Attorney Wassel: “Well give me an example; I guess is what I am asking for.” Chair Polzin: “I guess over there that if I went into the office and I asked for something and they said do you have Town Board approval for it. Now I am not going to be asking for anything that I shouldn’t be asking for. That I am going to get myself in trouble, because I asked for something that shouldn’t be or spent some money that shouldn’t be. But I don’t want this thrown over there you need Town Board approval? I guess they ain’t gotta give the description to me whether I should be handling this on my own. And then take the consequences that come back at the town meeting, then I guess is where you take me to ask for taking upon myself to do something.” Supervisor Jones: “Well right now they don’t have a mechanism by which other than asking you is this going to be approved. If they went ahead, in other words if they... As I understand it they have no way of getting an item on the agenda with out going through you or through I don’t know how they get something on the agenda.” Chair Polzin: “It has to go through me or two Town Board members.” Supervisor Jones: “If they are questioning, and they have a legitimate question of what you have directed them to do and they assume that that directive is going to be approved by the board and they want to verify that, they have no mechanism for verifying that. For coming here and saying, hey did Wayne do this, did he come to you and get this verified. They have no recourse, I mean we can’t give them total, I mean you total power and not give them some way to check on it.” Chair Polzin: “There is an automatic recourse. It can be brought up by anybody at a Town Board meeting under comments and suggestions, if it had to be. But if they ask me to put it on the agenda I don’t have a problem discussing anything publicly. I never have and never will. I feel that if I am going to say it I should say it publicly so the people know where I am coming from and why I am coming from their. But the other alternative to that is if they want to get something on the agenda and I refuse to put it on. They can call two board members and ask them if they would support putting something on the agenda. And all they have to do is sign that we want this on the agenda and it is automatically on. Am I right or wrong Steve.” Attorney Wassel: “You are right.” Chair Polzin: “So, this is to protect the rest of the Town Board. Two supervisors can put anything on the agenda that they want, if the Town Board (Did you mean Chair???) refuses. Normally…” Attorney Wassel: “You can call for meetings.” Chair Polzin: “Yeah, you can call for a meeting if you want to, a special meeting for a purpose, and two supervisors. But chances are if you call me for a special meeting for some reason and it was legit, I would call for the meeting. If you ask to have something on the agenda, even if I was apposed to it, I would put it on the agenda I would probably vote against it, and you know me Herb, well enough from my past votes. But I explained why I voted the way I did.” Supervisor Jones: “Do you ladies think that that would satisfy your, in the event that something would happen, are you receive some directions or orders if that is what you want to call them from Wayne, to do something and you really truly felt that it wasn’t right or legal that you would have recourse that way. Would that, if you could then come to the board and say hey look we did this for that. We would expect you to carry them out and then you could come to us and say hey, look I don’t think what Wayne did was right or I don’t think it was legal or whatever and I want it on the agenda. Is that going to make you happy?” Clerk Bernsteen: “I…guess my… I don’t know if I would actually need something on the agenda, if he…” Supervisor Jones: “Well you have to get it before the board. We are the only ones…” Clerk Bernsteen: “Yes, and I realize that, I guess…” Supervisor Jones: “You need a mechanism to get it before the board. And you don’t, he just explained that how you could do that.” Clerk Bernsteen: “Well, yeah, if we need to bring something against, but, if he is giving us a direct order that he hasn’t discussed with you as a board that we feel is illegal. I am not going to do it. I am sorry. Because, to me it puts…” Attorney Wassel: “In that event, if you thought it was in illegal order, I would expect you to be on the phone to me immediately.” Clerk Bernsteen: “Yes, I would either be on the phone to you or I would be researching it myself. Before I actually made that…” Attorney Wassel: “Let me just, look, I am not going to try to make this harder, I am trying to make it simpler.” Clerk Bernsteen: “I know you are.” Attorney Wassel: “If you are going to spend 3 hours researching something that I can answer for you in 2 minutes, you know have wasted half of your day trying to figure out if you have received a lawful order. I see police officers everyday of the week that spent an entire shift trying to figure out how to avoid doing 5 minutes of work. So it is a two way street.” Clerk Bernsteen: “And I would not spend 3 hours doing that. I would either simply, call you e-mail the Towns Association for advice. I would go that route; I wouldn’t sit down and spend researching.” Supervisor Jones: “Now we have two ways of easing your conscience.” Clerk Bernsteen: “I always have had those. I never said I didn’t.” Supervisor Jones: “Well then why haven’t you been cooperating?” Chair Polzin: “I’ve got to make a comment.” Clerk Bernsteen: “I have….The only thing I guess that I see I haven’t been cooperating on is, the file cabinets and to be honest with you. I really felt that there were two board members, two supervisors on the board at that time. They really even weren’t sure whether or not they even needed cabinets, because it was brought up at the very first meeting. They didn’t even know if they really needed one, ok. And there are only two board members; I am order to order 4. I am thinking about the tax payers, ok.” Attorney Wassel: “But this is the problem, if I may…” Clerk Bernsteen: “I could very well, I could be wrong.” Attorney Wassel: “Well the problem is you are not a member of the board. And if the board wants to authorize very silly expenditure and you as a tax payer don’t like it, it is your prerogative to try that voted out of office. It is not your prerogative to undermine what they have authorized.” Clerk Bernsteen: “Then that is my wrong thinking then.” Chair Polzin: “I have got to make a comment Steve on the Towns Association. And we have had a past Town Board member that seemed to email the Towns Association every other week. You are going to get an answer from the Towns Association, for the information you give them. If you are looking answer “B” give them the information for answer “B”, if you want an answer “A” then give them the information for answer “A”. If you call Steve’s office and talk to the attorney, he knows the town, he knows our government and he asked you a question. When he finds out the real question is and what the real problem is, you are going to get the real answer. I called the Towns Association periodically.” Attorney Wassel: “When he doesn’t like what I have to say.” Chair Polzin: “No…(Laughter) so anyway with that over there, I have more faith in calling and discussing with Steve about different issues and where we can discuss it and I am getting the answer that is the lawful answer and the correct answer; because he is going to ask me, well what about this or what about that. To give me the proper answer. And you heard him hear tonight, give me a for instance. He did not give an answer, he asked for more information. The Towns Association and I think is the poorest attorney’s of all of them up there is Tara.” Attorney Wassel: “Now be careful now.” Chair Polzin: “Well I am sorry…” Attorney Wassel: “I understand you are expressing an opinion.” Chair Polzin: “Yeah, I want…” Attorney Wassel: “The only thing I want to say about that this. First of all you get what you pay for.” Clerk Bernsteen: “Exactly, I realize that.” Attorney Wassel: “And secondly, they have limited information. They don’t know the players, they know the landscape and if we ultimately get into a case where we are going to have to defend, we are suing, whatever. It is me who is in the trenches. And it is not Rick Stadelman, it is not his staff. And it is real easy for him to sit in an ivory tower and not go on in our courts down here. I would at least expect to be aware of what the issue is, so we can at least try to help out. And if we can’t, we don’t know the answer, we are going to say gee we don’t know. This is a unique question. But 27 years of doing this we usually have encountered at least something similar.” Chair Polzin: “I don’t know how many times Steve that I have told Town Board members, if you have a question, you don’t know the answer to it, call Steve. I didn’t say well you come to me first or whatever over there. Call Steve, I mean that is what we are paying him for. And you don’t want half an answer or the wrong answer, because you can get yourself in trouble in a hurry. It is easier to call him and keep us out of trouble, than it is to make the call yourself and get yourself in trouble.” Attorney Wassel: “Isn’t really the bottom line here one, communication and how, Dixie is obviously not stupid. And she knows and is learning her job and she understands the real world and how it operates. If there is something that comes from the board and she for what ever reason does not like the way the message is delivered, has time constraints and maybe says something the wrong way to Wayne, Frank whomever and says that is not my job, get your own personal secretary. I am not going to pick up your dry cleaning or whatever. How can we ameliorate this difference, I think is the bottom line, isn’t it really, and I mean how can …” Supervisor Jones: “You are so darn lucky and I am wondering whether, right now whether everybody feels that we have the safe guard. If we would go ahead and make a motion to authorize Wayne technically, which is already effective in the statutes. But make a motion to authorize him to convey the orders of the board, to the staff or to the committee’s or anybody else in the township. And in respect as a spokesman for the board. If we have the safeguards in effect, that we are not authorizing him to be KING. That, I hate to have to do, or make a motion. But if that is the only way we can do it, and if we have the safeguards in effect. If we, in effect have to create. I think deep down what is going on here is, let’s cal a spade a spade. Dixie doesn’t like Wayne. And Wayne don’t like Dixie. And they are like a cat and a dog, they are like oil and water, they do not mix. And they are both elected, so by god they are going to have to live until their terms are up.” Attorney Wassel: “Or until you have an Administrator who can step in between.” Supervisor Jones: “Or one of them is going to have to resign, one or the other.” Clerk Bernsteen: “Very good philosophy and it is not that I don’t like Wayne, I do like Wayne. It’s, I guess, he had made a comment at our meeting Frank you were there. He wants to do everything right and legal. Well I am seeing he wasn’t doing that. That is where I was coming from.” Chair Polzin: “For instance.” Supervisor Jones: “Well if we make this motion do you feel now.” Clerk Bernsteen: “You don’t even need to make the motion. I am willing to work with anybody, if they are willing to work with me.” Supervisor Jones: “But you have to understand that he is our spokesman.” Clerk Bernsteen: “And I realize that, I know that.” Supervisor Jones: “When he says something essentially what we are telling you is he is speaking for the board and you have a right to question that through these various means. But when he is telling you something, you can’t question everything he tells you.” Clerk Bernsteen: “And I don’t.” Chair Polzin: “Frank, I have to answer to the Town Board.” Supervisor Jones: “Exactly” Chair Polzin: “So if I do something wrong, my boss is four Supervisors.” Clerk Bernsteen: “And I guess too because we are all in a learning mode except for Wayne. And you also you don’t know what your full job is.” Supervisor Jones: “Exactly” Clerk Bernsteen: “I don’t either, you know and I think that, it’s getting used to working with each other, getting used to everyone’s styles, personalities stuff like that, and it might take a while. And I am sure we are going to have more run ins with each other, because we disagree. It is gonna happen.” Chair Polzin: “In all my years with the town government, it is 14 of them.” Supervisor Sessner: “How can we, can we make a motion, would you listen, and I think we should make the motion and vote on it. Because eventually with an administrator; that is the way going to be any way.” Supervisor Jones: “We have to do something.” Supervisor Sessner: “We will have to say who does the Town Administrator work for, and I have already thought of voting for Wayne. You know.” Supervisor Sessner: “You can’t work for five people.” Chair Polzin: “Dixie said earlier, she does not have any faith in what I tell her. Now, how many times, I talked to you last Saturday and I spent half an hour on the telephone, and you had questions. How many times have I told you, that I don’t know the answer to that?” Supervisor Sessner: “Right” Chair Polzin: “And I have done that to all of the Town Board members, but I will find out. You know the worst thing in the world that you can do is give somebody a lie. And then remember what lie you told them.” Supervisor Jones: “Well not that…” Chair Polzin: “So, with it over there, if you are going to give information out, you better give it out that you can remember what you told them (Laughter).” Supervisor Jones: “Now that we have aired our dirty linen here. Do we need to make a motion or don’t we.” Clerk Bernsteen: “It is up to you guys, you are the board.” Chair Polzin: “Well I tell you what Frank; the motion can always be made. I can call a meeting at anytime. And if action has to be taken, we can take it. But, I want to go back to one other thing that I read in some of the stuff about government. That, is the Town Board gives out orders, and another elected official does not do their job, that they are directed to do. They can be taken and removed from office, through the court system. So, there is a, also a channel for that. Other than after a year you can have a recall on somebody. But they have to be in office one year, before you can recall them. But if there is other problems within that, there is another avenue and that is through the court system.” Supervisor Jones: “The basic question though is, are we gonna be able to work or at least attempt to work together, or aren’t we?” Chair Polzin: “I am not having problems, ah…” Supervisor Jones: “Well yeah there are problems, don’t give me that baloney.” Chair Polzin: (laugh) Supervisor Jones: “We have big problems and not being able to get things run through the office here and Herb and I…” Supervisor Sessner: “I like that we…” Supervisor Jones: “We are not going to be working in the office and that is not our function. I expect it, you to be carrying out the orders of the board.” Supervisor Sessner: “Right” Supervisor Jones: “And I expect you to be able work with them and I expect, specifically I expect them to take orders from you. I don’t care if you don’t like Wayne, as long as you are in that position, you are going to have to do what he tells you to do.” Clerk Bernsteen: “And I don’t have a problem with that; as long as it is a directive from the board.” Chair Polzin: “I don’t think Pat and I ever had a ah, word about anything. (Laughter) Ah, but I don’t deal with Pat either. I say hello to her and so on. But the Town Board has no directives for the treasurer. Although we are going to have one later on it. (Laughter) Supervisor Jones: “So can we just pass by this, and shake hands and say we are going to try and work together then.” Clerk Bernsteen: “I think for this last week have been doing very well.” Supervisor Sessner: “Ok, I have a question to ask you? And the case that I am a very detailed person very, very detailed; especially in writing. And I noticed mistakes for example in this last minute meeting.” Chair Polzin: “That is by me though Herb. Be careful. (Laughter) Supervisor Sessner: “I don’t know who made this up.” Chair Polzin: “I did.” Supervisor Sessner: “You typed this?” Chair Polzin: “Yes.” Supervisor Sessner: “See I think they should be typed in the office. Because they have spell check and…” Chair Polzin: “I do too. And I don’t know where you found a mistake.” Clerk Bernsteen: “I… I was…” Supervisor Sessner: “Oh, yeah right here. You have some commas missing, and this and that. In the last minutes of one meeting I saw, I think I missed it, somebody, Colleen’s name was on there. Why was that sent to Colleen or wasn’t it?” Chair Polzin: “Well I ask…” Clerk Bernsteen: “I think that was a typo with something…” Supervisor Sessner: “Who ever typed it…” Clerk Bernsteen: “It came from Kay’s, and…” Supervisor Franzen: “The issue is what I gave you couldn’t be put into your computer, so I think you went in and accidentally accessed an old form.” Clerk Bernsteen: “That could have been too.” Supervisor Franzen: “And that…” Supervisor Sessner: “See that should be taken care of, I looked on the internet…” Clerk Bernsteen: “Right, but we didn’t know about that “ Supervisor Sessner: Now, on the internet today, I was looking up something, and it has got the names of the town members and so forth.” Clerk Bernsteen: “Yes” Supervisor Sessner: “And it is not, I am not on there.” Clerk Bernsteen: “Well if it is old minutes or …” Supervisor Sessner: “No its’ the thing on the computer that address list you have, of town members.” Chair Polzin: “Board members?” Clerk Bernsteen: “I guess you would have…” Someone in audience: “A web page.” Clerk Bernsteen: “On the web page or...” Supervisor Sessner: “On the web page. My name is not on their, phone number is not on there.” Clerk Bernsteen: “Because I haven’t had that updated yet, because I didn’t know when, actually when I went and added…” Supervisor Sessner: “You don’t; do that yourself?” Clerk Bernsteen: “No, I don’t do that myself.” Supervisor Sessner: “Who does that?” Clerk Bernsteen: “Our computer guy does it.” Supervisor Sessner: “We pay to have that done?” Clerk Bernsteen: “Yes” Supervisor Jones: “What can you do?” Supervisor Sessner: “My wife can do it. But see, people ask me. How come you are not on that list? I said I don’t know, you know and it should be updated every day. Attorney Wassel: “If you are going to have one you need to keep it current. Otherwise people don’t look at it.” Supervisor Sessner: “Right, it should be current.” Chair Polzin: “I still can’t, Herb to answer your question. I cannot see how Colleen’s name ever appeared in, ah the posting list. She was never in the posting list to my knowledge, and how it ever got into the middle of that posting list is beyond me.” Supervisor Sessner: “Yeah.” Chair Polzin: “That had to be put in there on purpose that was sending it out.” Supervisor Sessner: “But see…” Chair Polzin: “But that creates the problem is, is if you are going to have one person get a thing sent to them, then how can you refuse anyone else that has one. So, I told Dixie I wanted that taken off.” Supervisor Sessner: “But anyways, but that is what I look at, and I look at, you got citizens reading this thing, oh my goodness.” Clerk Bernsteen: “I guess the thing that you have kind of realize too is…” Supervisor Sessner: “No, if you don’t have the time, we need to get some more help.” Clerk Bernsteen: “Ok, the thing is I don’t do the agenda’s. All I do is distribute them.” Supervisor Sessner: “Oh, you don’t do them?” Clerk Bernsteen: “No…” Supervisor Sessner: “That is what I am finding out.” Chair Polzin: “Years ago the clerk always done em’, but things have changed over the years.” Supervisor Sessner: “Well I don’t think, if I am going to call a Finance Committee I have to do this?” Clerk Bernsteen: “The committee chair, is responsible for their own agenda’s, you make them up and give them to me. I distribute them.” Supervisor Sessner: “I have to type it up?” Clerk Bernsteen: “Yes” Attorney Wassel: “You can just do it long hand if you want.” Chair Polzin: “If you think the minutes are bad, Herb.” Supervisor Sessner: “Not the minutes.” Chair Polzin: “Well the minutes are that. Well then I think I should bring out last nights minutes of …that was the Planning Commission meeting wasn’t it?” Supervisor Sessner: “Yeah.” Chair Polzin: “And all the corrections were made in it, no it wasn’t either, it was Administrative Committee. And if you want to see how many mistakes is in that …ah, there must be 50.” Supervisor Sessner: “You brought it up.” Chair Polzin: “Who did?” Supervisor Sessner: “The guy in the meeting.” Chair Polzin: “Oh, you were here that night.” Supervisor Sessner: “Yeah.” Clerk Bernsteen: “What happened is I, and this is because my job is, I get pulled her and here and here and stuff like that, I think what I did… Because I went back to make those changes and they were made. I think what happened was I had copied them off before making the changes, and didn’t realize it.” Supervisor Sessner: “That is what maybe we could decide, maybe you need more help, because you have 30-40 citizens reading that thing.” Clerk Bernsteen: “Well, I think the citizens and if it is me I know I am not perfect.” Supervisor Sessner: “No, I said maybe you need more help.” Clerk Bernsteen:: “No, what I am trying to say is, and I think, because this how I look at it and I know everybody doesn’t look at it that way but, Everybody is…not perfect. Everybody makes mistakes, and I, that is the way I look at it. I know everybody doesn’t and I know some people are perfectionist and stuff like that. But, that is they way I look at it. I know I am not perfect, and I know everybody else isn’t perfect.” Supervisor Sessner: “Isn’t this a legal stuff.” Attorney Wassel: “Yes, and it it’s our work product.” Supervisor Sessner: “I right.” Clerk Bernsteen: “And I realize that too. But…” Supervisor Sessner: “I write an expert witness report, and if I had a mistake, and I am not criticizing you.” Clerk Bernsteen: “I know that.” Supervisor Sessner: “If I had mistakes like that, the other attorney, and the opposing attorney would you say, you can’t even spell. And you are an expert witness. I have been an expert witness three times. And then I have somebody else read it.” Chair Polzin: “Can you find a spelled word wrong in that?” Supervisor Sessner: “I haven’t gone through it.” Attorney Wassel: “Well, I look at number six here and try and figure out what kind of action you can take on that. But, I mean…” Supervisor Sessner: “But this way could go to Wayne and say hey, you made a mistake here. Instead of coming to you and all this.” Chair Polzin: “Well, I was going to say on this over here, you now I am not a secretary.” Supervisor Sessner: “I know.” Chair Polzin: “And so on and so forth, but as long as I feel most of the stuff is spelled properly, I use spell check on the thing. But if I…” Supervisor Sessner: “Spell check doesn’t really help you that much.” Chair Polzin: “No, not with the comma’s and all that kind of stuff. But, I guess ah…” Supervisor Sessner: “You’d like that 6:30 P.M. lower level.” Chair Polzin: “The meeting is at 6:00 P.M. lower level. But it is not in the lower level that is supposed to be on tomorrow nights agenda. There is going to be court here tomorrow night. I put that on the wrong one.” Supervisor Sessner: “So there is a 6:30 P.M. lower level.” Chair Polzin: “Right down there.” Supervisor Sessner: “You see that is how I am though, I can’t help it.” Chair Polzin: “Will you quit being so damn picky.” (Laughter) Supervisor Sessner: “No…No…we are representing, and we have citizens sitting here and they are saying, oh my goodness.” Supervisor Jones: “Let’s get to Pat’s problem.” Chair Polzin: “Well, we are going to move on.” Supervisor Sessner: “What about that motion, are we going to pass on that.” Chair Polzin: “Yeah.” Supervisor Sessner: “OK” Chair Polzin: “We can always come back if it has too.” Supervisor Sessner: “So, if I have a question would I go to you or Dixie?” Chair Polzin: “About what?” Supervisor Sessner: “Something. If I find a mistake or whatever..” Chair Polzin: “Well, all if the mistakes, if they are in the minutes, they are corrected at the meeting.” Supervisor Sessner: “Right” Chair Polzin: “A motion is made to accept the minutes as printed with a second, and then you go under discussion. In line three the word so and so is missing or spelled wrong or something. But no, that …” Attorney Wassel: “If it is an agenda you have to contact the person that prepared it.” Supervisor Jones: “I don’t think Herb was talking about the agenda, he was talking about carrying out some action. He wanted to know whether if he should go to Wayne or if he should be going to…” Supervisor Sessner: “If I have a question, or something who would I go to?” Chair Polzin: “If it is on the agenda it is me.” Supervisor Franzen: “It would probably depend on what the question was.” Supervisor Jones: “Skip the agenda, just any thing that he wants or is supposed to, and some action that is supposed to have taken place. Whether if it is with the road committee or one of his committees or whatever and we are directed to that if something happened. He wants to know who he can ask if, to find out…” Chair Polzin: “Well I guess, Ok, if for an example if it was the park committee, and there was a question on the park. She is the one to call.” Supervisor Sessner: “Ok.” Chair Polzin: “And if we have a problem with the fire department, ah, we would either call you or Jim Wolfgram.” Supervisor Sessner: “Right” Chair Polzin: “Probably would call Jim being the Chairman of that committee. But if he wasn’t available you would be called.” Supervisor Sessner: “So I am going to have a Finance Committee meeting. Now, I have to write the agenda, and all that stuff?” Chair Polzin: “You also have to take and check of when you can have that meeting. Because, there are so many meetings in the town (Laughter) you can’t have too many.” Supervisor Sessner: “I am going to attend all the meetings of the town.” Chair Polzin: “I had ah,…” Supervisor Sessner: “I want to attend them, I learn.” Chair Polzin: “I had ah, I had Kay holding two meetings on the same night, the same time. Didn’t I Kay.” Supervisor Franzen: “Yes” Supervisor Sessner: “We all make mistakes.” Supervisor Jones: “Ok, let’s get to Pat’s …” Chair Polzin: “Pat Morelli has requested some part time help on things that pop up now and then in her position as Treasurer. No do I have the authority that if I talk now to Pat and Pat say’s Wayne, I am having a problem with this, can I get somebody to come in and help me? With that. And, well Pat how long is it going to take you, well she figured an hour or two hours or whatever. Do I have the authority then to tell her then to go ahead and get it? Last month we missed a report that she did not have, because she did not fully understand how to prepare it. There is a lot of work to hers also as a Treasurer. The one that she had talked to me about that she would like to if she could. Well I guess she volunteered first of all is Dorothy Fladten. Dorothy Fladten was the Town Treasurer here for over 20 years. So, if I am right…” Supervisor Jones: “I think we can give you the authority to find out what help she needs and who she should go to. And approximately what it would cost, can we trust you to that you are not going to spend all of the town’s money. If it is some great amount of money, we would expect you to come here to get it authorized.” Chair Polzin: “What did we figure on, did we talk about what you thought maybe we should pay for like her to come in.” Treasurer Morelli: “I just wondered if it would be appropriate to offer her something, to help me. She might say that is ridiculous.” Chair Polzin: “She might not take anything, but I think I would like to earmark. OK, if we are going to have her in, and I, she has got the experience now; we don’t even have to go into that part. But, should we offer her for her experience to come in like $12 an hour. If it is for t